Curse

Omega X · Sep 25, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

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Originally Posted by Former Ruling

Abbadon literally means "Hell" (Realm of the Dead, like already said). So Abbadon's Mouth would literally be "The Mouth of Hell" or the "Hellmouth"

Underworld=Hell in Guild Wars. So of course it would be a mouth to the Underworld in lore.

Don't try to make it into more than it is

The Underworld does NOT equal Hell for everyone.

There are sections of the Underworld for good and bad spirits.

Also, There has been no known link to Abaddon being imprisoned in the Underworld.

Abaddon's Mouth was named after Abaddon because its the "suspected" very dangerous way into the Underworld. It hasn't been proven that a gateway into the Underworld exists there yet.

Also, on a side note. It's not known if the Titans were locked in a different dimension than the Underworld itself.

Lady Lozza · Sep 25, 2006, 05:39 AM // 05:39

So now that the volcano has erupted...

RTSFirebat · Sep 25, 2006, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Edited title of thread to remove spoiler from the title.

arcanemacabre · Sep 25, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Edited title of thread to remove spoiler from the title.

Ahh, thanks! Cause I really didn't want to know that Abaddon was the outcast god, yet.

Doh!

Omega X · Sep 25, 2006, 07:50 AM // 07:50

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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Ahh, thanks! Cause I really didn't want to know that Abaddon was the outcast god, yet.

Doh!

I hope you totally avoided the Preview then...

arcanemacabre · Sep 25, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

I hope you totally avoided the Preview then...

oops... forgot the /sarcasm tags, huh?

Rallick · Sep 25, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

So, considering that all campaigns might be somehow connected, it might be possible that braking the mursat seal in prophecies might have served a greater purpose than just releasing titans.

The sear look kind of reminds me of the various designs related to outcast god, might be more the coincidence. He did play a major role in defeating the mursat (providing protection from their attacks), and do be honest, I find it hard to believe that such ancient creature wouldn’t know about the titans (espessialy as they ware sealed away by the mursat, and he seemed to know a lot about them). It looked like he wanted the seal to be released, but definitely he didn’t care much about the liches plan

And one more thing, if the mursat was such a powerful and victorious race, why before the charr invasion ware the hiding? They weren’t afraid of humans, this one I’m pretty sure of that.

It would be kind off funny to realize that in prophecies we ware manipulated into destroying the only force that was protecting the word from the outcast god

P.S. do you think that dervish will get an avatar of Abaddon? He is a god after all, and on that pic he is wielding a scythe

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Abaddon's Mouth was named after Abaddon because its the "suspected" very dangerous way into the Underworld.

Or, more likely, it was called that because Abaddon's mouth would translate to the mouth of ruin. Abaddon as a name in chapter three likely wasn't conceptualized at that time.

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It hasn't been proven that a gateway into the Underworld exists there yet.

Yes it has. It's a volcano. You jump in it, and you end up in the Underworld. This is not a complex issue.

Nobody said it was a portal letting you get there alive!

gr3g · Sep 25, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Or, more likely, it was called that because Abaddon's mouth would translate to the mouth of ruin. Abaddon as a name in chapter three likely wasn't conceptualized at that time.

I am going to assume that this was all planned out years ago as it's more fun that way.

In Abaddon's Mouth was said to be the Door of Komalie. As this lore is being reprocessed in Nightfall, the question then is who or what was Komalie? I have two guesses that seem equally plausible to me. One is that Komalie was a High Priest of Abaddon's cult and his duty was to be the custodian to Abaddon's realm. The other guess is that Komalie is a location in the Realm of Torment which the Door leads to from Abaddon's Mouth. A long time ago (more than a year ago) the Ring of Fire islands were called Komalie's Rest -- is that a clue?

In the Blacktide Den mission General Kahyet says that "Abaddon will eat your eyes. Nightfall comes." From this we can surmise that blindness and darkness is somehow associated with him. I predict that there will be areas in the game with area of effect blindness so attacking classes better learn to deal damage without weapons (think: ripostes, traps, IW, etc.)

(Note: all speculation, of course.)

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

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Originally Posted by gr3g

I am going to assume that this was all planned out years ago as it's more fun that way.

You do these things to hurt me, don't you?

Quote:

In Abaddon's Mouth was said to be the Door of Komalie. As this lore is being reprocessed in Nightfall, the question then is who or what was Komalie? I have two guesses that seem equally plausible to me. One is that Komalie was a High Priest of Abaddon's cult and his duty was to be the custodian to Abaddon's realm. The other guess is that Komalie is a location in the Realm of Torment which the Door leads to from Abaddon's Mouth. A long time ago (more than a year ago) the Ring of Fire islands were called Komalie's Rest -- is that a clue?

Is there evidence that worshippers of Abaddon moved extensively outside Elona, enough so to go where no human ever walked? No human has ever been told to make it past the beachhead of the Fire Islands, from natural predators and environmental hazards.

Furthermore, would the gods imprison something to that depth only to allow direct access through a gate such as that? That goes against known motives and would require significantly more proof to make a statement on, especially as how the door was open and nothing more than the Titans were summoned out of it. When the Titans walked before, the Seer only speaks of the Titans and Armageddon Lord Titans causing havoc - if your theory was the case, the Seer would recall Abaddon walking - the Titans would be a practical afterthought.

Any actual Elona-Tyrian continent linkage is likely in retrospect and not planned.

Quote:

In the Blacktide Den mission General Kahyet says that "Abaddon will eat your eyes. Nightfall comes." From this we can surmise that blindness and darkness is somehow associated with him. I predict that there will be areas in the game with area of effect blindness so attacking classes better learn to deal damage without weapons (think: ripostes, traps, IW, etc.)

(Note: all speculation, of course.)

I believe it would be more along the lines of his dark malevolence covering up the world than literal blindness etc.

ramma77 · Sep 25, 2006, 09:24 AM // 09:24

GREAT ODIN'S RAVEN look at the size of that guy!!!11!!!

he's going hurt

gr3g · Sep 25, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Is there evidence that worshippers of Abaddon moved extensively outside Elona, enough so to go where no human ever walked? No human has ever been told to make it past the beachhead of the Fire Islands, from natural predators and environmental hazards.

The Abaddon cult need not have been human to begin with -- think Margonites. Also, the reason the RoF islands are hostile to humans is because of the Mursaat. It is pretty clear from the Prophecies lore that the Mursaat found the Flameseeker Prophecies and rushed to the RoF to protect the Door of Komalie. In other words, the door was created before the Mursaat were a presence there. And, for all we know, the Margonites have a natural resistance to Spectral Agony.

Quote:

Furthermore, would the gods imprison something to that depth only to allow direct access through a gate such as that? That goes against known motives and would require significantly more proof to make a statement on, especially as how the door was open and nothing more than the Titans were summoned out of it. When the Titans walked before, the Seer only speaks of the Titans and Armageddon Lord Titans causing havoc - if your theory was the case, the Seer would recall Abaddon walking - the Titans would be a practical afterthought.

One thing we know is that Abaddon is quite a powerful bad guy, as he single handedly will "bring the time of the five gods to an end". If the five could so easily dominate him, he would be destroyed, not sealed. In RPG terms, you seal things that are too powerful for you to destroy. Moreover, all seals are leaky. This brings up another point: if the Door is a Bloodstone, then are all Bloodstones seals? If so, recall that establishing the Bloodstones was the last thing the Old Gods did before the Exodus, and the stones were purportedly designed to limit the use of magic by humans. But it could just as well have been to limit the access to Abaddon by humans. In other words, Abaddon is the embodiment of raw destructive power, which also explains why he had to be sealed away by the other five gods.

About the Titans -- the Door of Komalie might be too small to let Abaddon through, but large enough to let creatures from the Realm of Torment enter Tyria. Assuming the Titans are from the RoT. (And if the Titans are from the RoT, and are worshipped by the Charr, then are the Charr also members of the Abaddon cult? Or used as grunts by the Abaddon cult?)

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 09:51 AM // 09:51

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Originally Posted by gr3g

The Abaddon cult need not have been human to begin with -- think Margonites. Also, the reason the RoF islands are hostile to humans is because of the Mursaat.

And you know, those flaming rivers of molten rock, and the giant Hydras? Yeah, those aren't decoration. The only reason they aren't in other parts of the RoF missions is the Mursaat exterminated most of the fauna (evidence : RoF mission 1 - Igneous Ettins will fight with Jade Armors at the second tower).

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It is pretty clear from the Prophecies lore that the Mursaat found the Flameseeker Prophecies and rushed to the RoF to protect the Door of Komalie. In other words, the door was created before the Mursaat were a presence there. And, for all we know, the Margonites have a natural resistance to Spectral Agony.

Agony wasn't the only weapon of the Mursaat - they still beat the Seer's race. that understood how to combat agony. If no human army could best the Mursaat, but a human army could best the Margonites...

Also, the Margonites started as human. Evidence they would potentially have been immune to Spectral Agony through their compleation (yay for Phyrexian terms!) = not there.

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If the five could so easily dominate him, he would be destroyed, not sealed. In RPG terms, you seal things that are too powerful for you to destroy.

Actually, in RPG terms you seal things that you want to keep an eye on, that are powerful enough that killing them would be letting them lose. Hell, Dhumm was killed and Lore forumites are practically a revival cult already.

It's also more likely that if the five found him little trouble, they wouldn't care to go through a full eradication of him - rather than just throw him beyond reach. Look at Shiro (the other Envoys were as strong as him, he was a threat because he acted in the mortal realm outside their boundaries). It's harder to destroy a spirit of that strength that to put it eternally away. In the case of Dhumm, it was Grenth versus him to the death - nobody could be beat down enough to be banished.

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Moreover, all seals are leaky.

Yet the Netherlands still exists!

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This brings up another point: if the Door is a Bloodstone, then are all Bloodstones seals?

The door is powered by souls sacrificed to the keystone. It is not the door itself.

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If so, recall that establishing the Bloodstones was the last thing the Old Gods did before the Exodus, and the stones were purportedly designed to limit the use of magic by humans. But it could just as well have been to limit the access to Abaddon by humans.

Rampant speculation. The gods limited power on the behalf of the entire human race that was being eradicated by outside sources - there wasn't a strong nation of humans such as Elona in existance yet for the battle against the compleat Margonites to take place.

Quote:

In other words, Abaddon is the embodiment of raw destructive power, which also explains why he had to be sealed away by the other five gods.

About the Titans -- the Door of Komalie might be too small to let Abaddon through, but large enough to let creatures from the Realm of Torment enter Tyria. Assuming the Titans are from the RoT. (And if the Titans are from the RoT, and are worshipped by the Charr, then are the Charr also members of the Abaddon cult? Or used as grunts by the Abaddon cult?)

There is such as thing as overanalysis. The charr worship fire, saw beings of fire, and worshipped them. Forumites have made them everything from this to servants of the Lich... stop it, they're just brutes that follow the Titans because of their love of fire.

Rallick · Sep 25, 2006, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

There is such as thing as overanalysis. The charr worship fire, saw beings of fire, and worshipped them. Forumites have made them everything from this to servants of the Lich... stop it, they're just brutes that follow the Titans because of their love of fire.

Actually, we don’t know much about Charr, stating that they are just brutes following their worship of fire, and thus worshipping Titans, is just another overanalysis, as we do not know much about charr past and culture. Considering that this is a speculative thread, everything we do here is based on assumption.

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallick

Actually, we don’t know much about Charr, stating that they are just brutes following their worship of fire, and thus worshipping Titans, is just another overanalysis, as we do not know much about charr past and culture. Considering that this is a speculative thread, everything we do here is based on assumption.

No. Stating the Charr worship fire is the opposite of an overanalysis, it's a simplified conclusion based on visual evidence and occam's razor. It's also referenced in the handbook. Also, everything you might do here is based on assumption, but a post with any substance should have some evidence or corroboration with other sources.

Neriandal Freit · Sep 25, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

As a note to all, "To argue and debate with Avarre is the cost of your sanity, for mesmers are best at playing your own mind games".

Cheers! :P

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 10:52 AM // 10:52

It's either despise the Lore threads, or move to conquer them, Neriandal

gr3g · Sep 25, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Who's arguing? Avarre might personally despise all lore threads, but it's a demon of his/her own making.

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

I wasn't aware shoddy logic, speculation, and opinion-based evidence had suddenly become virtues I should appreciate, gr3g.

EDIT : Not naming anyone who does the above, but don't. Retroactively, if you have done any of those, stop it.

Sujoy · Sep 25, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

in the first cinematic of NF, it showed the 6 eyed god(his statue on the floor)... Im pretty sure thats the concept art we saw